Warning, if you are offended by potty mouth words or stronger language, you might want to hit your "back" button right about now. If you'd like to know and understand WHY things are they way they are, then read-on.
For those who like to get "info" or "advice" from forums, you always have to consider the source. TRUE pro guys don't hang-out on forums. We are busy and have too many other things to do, but someone sent me a link to a page on a Chevelle forum where my name and prices for what I build came-up with some pretty lame comments and "opinions", so I copied each guy's remark and made my own comments to them. I did this so you can see why guys like myself don't go to, or hang out on forums, and why we warn many of you that contact us to stay away from them too. Too many "experts" on them have too many lame-ass opinions, and you know what opinions are like...
“Not sure what his prices are but we have a guy near our town that has been in the business for 25 years who builds 383's that run on pump gas that DYNO and he DYNO's all of them at over 530 HP and 520 ft lbs of torque. I see badd ass is adertising in the mid 400 range. Our local guy's complete engine runs $6000 - $7000. He can get them over 550 HP. I think that is a fair price. He builds about anything Blower motors, BB SB Hemis and his price I believe have been good. I think it's good to stay with the small guy sometimes.”
I’m not sure what this guy looked at or where he got his information, but I build CUSTOM engines, which means there are no “set” HP or prices being that I don’t know what the customer wants (or can afford), or more importantly... NEEDS for his particular application until I am contacted and we discuss what he wants. It's not all about how much "horsepower" you can get for X amount of money. Only an idiot would think like that.
OBVIOUSLY with track records, class champions, etc in IHRA, NHRA, SCCA, American Iron, The Bonneville 100, The Silver State Classic, etc, etc I am pretty sure I can build a 383 with a bit more power than 400, and even more than 500 (on pump gas). As far as getting an engine to make over 550 HP for $6,000 - $7,000… OBVIOUSLY so can I, and then some, but I choose NOT to sell engines like that because at that price, there are OBVIOUSLY components in it that aren’t exactly up to par to last a long time under those kinds of loads, stresses, pressures, heat, etc. I don't build or sell engines that aren't up to MY quality and strength standards, PERIOD! Obviously they'll cost more than some other guys "cheap-ass" engine!
“Their 383 w/ 400-450hp looks like it could cost upwards of 7-7500 dollars .
Seems pricey, especially when we have a member here that builds a nice streetable 355 putting out 440 hp for 3500 dollars. Now that other 3500 can go towards a better trans and converter, or a ford 9" rearend, etc. Does badass racing offer a warranty? Mark does and he stands behind his warranty, unlike so many shops and builders out there that claim to have a warranty until something breaks and you go to use said warranty. Then they blame you no matter what and your stuck with a $7000.00 prize pig. I would also be leary of his pricing ...everything is 6000.00 or so, add this for 70000 or so...seems like he has no idea what it costs to add extras. That is like saying, I can sell you this home for 200,000.00 or so, if you want a working bathroom it will add 10,000.00 or so and a dishwasher will be an extra 2000.00 or so. The guy should be able to give a firm price without seeming weasely. “
The engine this guy is describing is one of MANY “hypothetical” combinations that I put together on my site to show people what you can get, and expect, for X amount of money. I say ALL OVER my site that I do NOT “pre-build” ANY engines. EVERY engine is custom built to what each customer’s needs might be. Obviously the power is just a general rating, and with a cam profile change, etc, can OBVIOUSLY make more power. I made it QUITE clear that the power ratings given on those generic engine combos like that are just for reference and can go up, or down from there depending on what the customer wants, and needs.
Obviously if a guy has a truck, he is going to want more TORQUE rather than horsepower, which means he's going to need heads, an intake, carb, cam profile, etc, with different sized runners to make TORQUE and excellent velocity rather than "horsepower". How can I give a rating or price not knowing what I will be specifically designing and building it for?
As far as what this idiot says about my pricing, and he uses an analogy of building a home; go ask ANY custom home builder to give you a price on a 3,000 square foot home. He can’t UNTIL he knows what you want it made out of and what you want in it! Do you want wood exterior walls? Concrete? Brick? How about sheet rock interior walls, or fine wood? Do you want linoleum floors? Tile? Marble? Do you want cheap press board cabinets, or do you want custom made cabinets made out of really nice wood? Do you want appliances like you can get at Sears, or do you want things like a Wolf stove and a SubZero refrigerator? Obviously there are HUGE price differences between the lesser options and the more expensive options but the end result is still a 3,000 square foot home. Literally, it's like comparing a 3,000 square foot double wide mobile home to a 3,000 square foot custom built home. They both have 3,000 square feet and all of the same basic items inside (a bath, toilet, kitchen stuff, etc), but one sure as hell isn't like the other when you're talking about quality. Again, only a complete idiot would make an comparison between a custom built QUALITY engine and some cheap, janky-assed engine solely based on the horsepower ratings. Jesus people are stupid and that kind of stupidity really pisses me off! Guys like this turd are completely CLUELESS of anything that has to do with building CUSTOM engines or custom ANYTHING.
You can NOT give a price on an engine (or anything) until you know what the customer wants, such as fully CNCd heads vs. something like Edelbrock’s. Forged JE pistons vs. cast hypereutectic pistons. Not a single difference between the piston type (cheap cast, or the best of the best forged ones), or the rods, or the crank have anything to do with how much power it will make, but they have EVERYTHING to do with how much abuse it can take, and how much it will cost.
A stock type roller cam, vs. a flat tappet, or an aftermarket billet roller set-up, etc, etc all play major roles in how much the price of an engine will be. There are HUGE differences in prices on ALL of this stuff, so obviously there is going to be a price RANGE for a given engine size depending on what it is going to be put through.
If it's just a cruiser and has an automatic transmission, then obviously it won't need really expensive forged internals as one would with a car that is going to be abused more, or with a manual transmission that "impacts" things like cranks, rods, pistons, etc. If I pre-built shit like 95% of the crate motor places out there do, then I might have given prices on specific engines and would have specific power ratings, but until I know what the customer wants, needs, and can afford, a complete idiot should be able to figure out that there is no way to put an accurate price on something that doesn’t exist yet. Does this idiot think I can’t build a 440 HP 355 for $3,500? Give me a break! The difference is (and I state this all over my web site), you get what you pay for! Go grab a Summit or Jeg’s catalog and start looking-up prices of strong, quality parts. You’ll be OVER $3,500 in parts REAL fast! So what exactly is IN a $3,500 440 HP engine? Not much, and CERTAINLY not anything I would be willing to put MY name or reputation on! And yes, OBVIOUSLY I offer a warranty, which is comparable to the warranties that GM and Ford offer.
I also find it funny that in the same ”breath” of bashing me for the price of my engines, he goes on to say to spend the money you “saved” by buying that cheaper engine to upgrade the tranny and rear-end. What a complete and utter IDIOT! And what’s the difference between a “good” strong tranny or rear-end and another with the same gearing? STRENGTH and QUALITY! 4.11 stock gears are a hell of a lot different than 4.11 9310 nickle alloy drag race gears, and so is the price difference between the two! One set will last under harsh conditions... the other won't. Again, you get what you pay for. Just because they are both 4.11s doesn't mean they are the same strength or quality! So this guy OBVIOUSLY thinks it’s OK to cheapen-out on the engine, buy hey, put that money into a “better” (stronger or heavier duty) trans and rear-end. What an oxymoron, with added emphasis on the MORON part! God I hate stupid people!
“Yeah, his pricing is definitely CUSTOM...”
Again, as I stated above,. I build CUSTOM engines morons! Obviously there is going to be price RANGES for what you can get in any given engine REGARDLESS of what kind of power it is making. OBVIOUSLY a 450 HP engine in a cruiser car driven by an old man is going to be a LOT different than one in a Baja 500 truck, or a guy that literally street races on a daily basis! Longevity and reliability depends on what is IN the engine, not how much power it makes. I build ALL of my engines to withstand hard abuse, missed shifts, etc. Yes, they cost more, but so do a LOT of things of better quality, such as a Sub Zero or Wolf stove compared to a run of the mill Kenmore, or Maytag. See any of those in restaurants? Hardly! They use $15,000 - $20,000 Wolf stoves and $15,000 Sub Zero refrigerators because they can be abused and they last. You'll also find these type of appliances in high-end homes of wealthy people. They still cook food the same and keep it cool the same though, just as any 440 HP engine can be built “cheap”, or more expensive because of what’s in it. Are you idiots trying to tell me a Maytag stove or fridge is as good as a Wolf or Sub Zero in a commercial or an abusive environment? Hardly! Ya get what you pay for!
“If I couldn't build a 450-475 hp., 383 for 7 grand, I'd quit. Man that's alot of cash for that kind of power . A 10:1, 383 should crank out 450hp and 450 ft.lbs. with a hydraulic cam if you do your homework. That's just 1.2hp. per ci.”
Hey, no shit Sherlock! Again, it comes down to what’s IN it to make it strong, reliable and LAST through abuse. You don’t buy horsepower, you buy quality and strength! And again, OBVIOUSLY things like aftermarket roller cams, lightweight roller lifters, aluminum heads, a good forged crank, good rods and pistons, etc. even good rings and bearings cost a lot more than run of the mill bearings and rings. It all adds up! Let me ask you this; Did GM EVER produce a small block making that kind of power? NO. Did ANY of the “performance” engines GM built EVER come WITHOUT a forged crank? NO! How about forged pistons? NO! ALL of the 68 MO, 69 DZ and 71 LT-1 Z/28 engines, and ALL of the hot 340, 365 and 375 HP Vettes, etc came with forged cranks AND forged pistons. Then why do you think it’s okay to build something with more power than GM EVER produced with cheaper cast iron or cast steel cranks, cast pistons, cheap bearings and rings, etc? Let’s put a $3,500 450-475HP 383 YOU build against something up to MY standards in an endurance race, or a burn-out contest to the rims and see who finishes without a damaged or dead engine. Again, you get what you pay for! God people are stupid!
“I guess bad ass ain't so bad ass...websites can sure make you feel real good sometimes. I did notice that their 350ci were around $7,000, Horse APPLES!!!
I guess the reality of “you get what you pay for” and “quality and strength cost money” don’t compute in most of the minds of some people. As I said before and all over my site, I CAN build “cheap” engines, but they are destine to fail. I don’t build engines that aren’t up to MY standards, or that I think won’t live for a long LONG time under abuse. As I say all over my site, I can build a 500+ HP 350 using bone stock parts, a cast crank, stock rods, cast pistons, re-worked stock heads, a healthy flat tappet cam, etc, etc and it’s going to last, 3, 2, 1 seconds because it isn’t built strong enough to withstand its own power, let alone abuse, a missed a shift, the shock from a manual transmission, etc. If those kind of “cheap” parts were designed to handle that kind of load, RPM kinetic energy, heat, shock, etc, then other companies that make the stronger / more expensive parts, such as Scat, Eagle, Lunati, Callies, Manley, Crower, Comp Cams, Crane, JE/SRP, Speed-Pro, Weisco, Arias, BME, Howards, Clevite, Total Seal, Mahle, World, Dart, Trick Flow, etc, would all be out of business. They are all IN business and thriving for good reason, because high power engines built with cheap parts don’t last. It isn’t hard to build a 355 full race motor that makes 800 HP for in the $20,000area. Then why is it then that a NASCAR engine making the same amount of power costs upwards of $50,000? It’s because a NASCAR engine has to endure hour after hour of 9,000+ RPM abuse. It still makes the same amount of power as the engine that is $30,000 less expensive. The ONLY difference between them is the NASCAR motor is stronger and will last longer. You pay for quality and strength, NOT how much power an engine makes. I guess that’s too hard for some idiots to figure out! Again, it all boils down to; “You get what ya pay for”. It’s sad that a bunch of grown men, who you’d think might have at least a half a brain anyway, might understand this, but the evidence by the posts and comments they made proves otherwise, that the only thing that matters is how much power an engine “can” make and how cheap it can be built for. I guess that’s why builders like myself have clients around the world who demand better strength and quality than what some backyard mechanics or so called “engine builders” have.
Whew, I feel better now, LOL!
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